Difference between revisions of "Paiste Ludwig"
| Line 2: | Line 2: | ||
==Paiste Ludwig== | ==Paiste Ludwig== | ||
<div style="float:right">__TOC__</div> | <div style="float:right">__TOC__</div> | ||
| − | [[File: | + | [[File:Logo A.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Logo A]] |
| + | [[File:Logo B.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Logo B]] | ||
| + | [[File:Logo C.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Logo C]] | ||
| + | [[File:Logo D1.jpg|thumb|right|250px|ogo D1]] | ||
| + | [[File:Logo D2.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Logo D2]] | ||
| + | [[File:Logo D3.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Logo D3]] | ||
| − | |||
'''Introduction:''' 1956<br> | '''Introduction:''' 1956<br> | ||
'''Discontinued:''' 1964(?)<br> | '''Discontinued:''' 1964(?)<br> | ||
| − | '''Background:''' | + | '''Background:''' LUDWIG 3 STAR series. Introduction 1950* / Discontinued 1964* |
| − | + | Pending further review.* | |
| − | Ludwig | + | The official Paiste '09 timeline does not reference the Ludwig 3 Star at all, this name was given the masses over the past several years.<br> |
| − | In addition to the | + | Paiste only recognized the Ludwig Standard by name. All variants, we believe are NS12 (Nickel-Silver Alloy).<br> |
| − | + | There is proof of several different embossed logo variations, and it's still unclear as to the order of dating on these over this period. One should also compare the old Ludwig logos that are shown through their history, as this will help to show similar dating in these earlier days.<br> | |
| − | Ludwig | + | We do know that any of the Ludwig 3 Stars with the location name of "Swiss Made" or "Swiss" were made from 1957 and after.<br> |
| − | + | Also, there is proof that William F. Ludwig sent a letter to M. Paiste on July 23, 1946 agreeing to a partnership deal between the two companies. However, we do not yet know what that deal was, what kind of cymbals were to be sold, and when these were to be provided.<br> | |
| + | |||
| + | We believe the first of these were to be with only the "Ludwig" name embossed on the cymbals, as seen in Logo A to the right.<br> | ||
| + | Because we have only found limited proof of these photos (mostly from Ludwig catalogs), we have had to provide our own theories from our data & information collection. In doing so, we have found several indicator features to help identify general date ranges:<br> | ||
| + | |||
| + | Indicator #1--Font Form and Font Style: There are two general forms being used (a script line-form or a hollow block-form). In addition, most of the lettering is shown (detached or separate letters), but one has an (cursive style or attached letters). See the Logo types to the right to gain further information.<br> | ||
| + | |||
| + | Indicator #2--Star Tip Count & Locations: Although there is only one example of tip count variance found so far, we have noticed the locations and angles of the stars have slightly changed over these years. It's unknown as to if this really matters towards dating, but it may give a clue. Most Ludwig 3 Stars have a 5-tips (points or ends), but there is one variant that has 4-tips shown.<br> | ||
| + | |||
| + | Indicator #3--Font Style: There are two styles being used (with flared letter tips/ends) and (non-flared letter tips). You can see the "flared" tip lettering in the "u", "d", "w" and "i" of the Ludwig name. | ||
| + | The following is guestimated approach to a general timeline of the 3 Star use:<br> | ||
| + | |||
| + | LOGO (A): We believe this is the first logo used. It shows only the "Ludwig" name in a narrow script line-form with detached letters that have flared letter tips. There are No stars around this Ludwig name.<br> | ||
| + | |||
| + | LOGO (B): This is likely the second version used, as it is still in narrow script line-form, but changes to a 'cursive' lettering style and it includes three stars around the top and ends of the "Ludwig" name. Just under this, included the signature "Paiste" name. Most of these cymbals show two locations: "Germany" over "Chicago". At the time, Ludwig's (based in Chicago) distribution was for the American market.<br> | ||
| + | *Note: This logo used 4 pointed stars, which is the only one found in these variants. It's possible, like the original Super F602's, they were changing logos until they locked into a final product release.<br> | ||
| + | |||
| + | LOGO (C): We believe this might have been used at the Swiss factory and 1957 or after. It uses a script line-form that is wider than the original script used in "Ludwig". The lettering is detached and has no flared tips. The usual three stars are in place around the "Ludwig" name, which is over the "Paiste" signature. Under this is typically the production location name.<br> | ||
| + | |||
| + | LOGO (D): This is likely the last version of logo stamps used. I believe Paiste transitioned the font types from a script line-form over to a 'hollow' letter-form. They also used detached lettering with 'flared' tips, three stars around the "Ludwig" name, signature "Paiste" under "Ludwig", and the location name varied. | ||
| + | *Note: Being that this occurred in 1957 or after, cymbals had one of the following designations for location located under the "Paiste" signature:<br> | ||
| + | 1."Swiss Made"--1957 to 1964<br> | ||
| + | 2. "Germany" (with or without "Chicago" under it)<br> | ||
| + | 3. No location listed at all<br> | ||
| + | |||
| + | From 1957 and after, these sizes were believed to be offered: Thin, Medium, Heavy 10" through 22" Designated as Band, Ride or Hi Hat.<br> | ||
| + | It should be noted that Ludwig ordered a mass of cymbals shipped to their Chicago warehouse and from there, they mix and matched destined pairs of cymbals.<br> | ||
| + | Again, until we find the missing documents to help better identify some of these characteristics, we can only surmise.<br> | ||
'''Innovation:''' <br> | '''Innovation:''' <br> | ||
| Line 37: | Line 68: | ||
* '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[10"]] [[11"]] [[12"]] [[13"]] [[14"]] [[15"]] [[16"]] [[17"]] [[18"]] [[19"]] [[20"]] [[21"]] [[22"]]<br><br> | * '''[[Paiste Heavy|Heavy]] - [[10"]] [[11"]] [[12"]] [[13"]] [[14"]] [[15"]] [[16"]] [[17"]] [[18"]] [[19"]] [[20"]] [[21"]] [[22"]]<br><br> | ||
| + | <gallery> | ||
| + | File:Ludwig 57 catalog.jpg|Paiste's 1st. appearance in a Ludwig catalog (1957)! | ||
| + | |||
| + | </gallery> | ||
---- | ---- | ||
| − | |||
Information from: [http://www.nf-drums.com/paiste_fanpage_paiste_timeline.htm Timeline from nf drums Germany]<<< WARNING: some of this info is out of date<br> | Information from: [http://www.nf-drums.com/paiste_fanpage_paiste_timeline.htm Timeline from nf drums Germany]<<< WARNING: some of this info is out of date<br> | ||
Todd Little, Dan Garza<br> | Todd Little, Dan Garza<br> | ||
Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br> | Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br> | ||
Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]] | Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]] | ||
Revision as of 07:01, 28 August 2021
Paiste Ludwig
Contents
Introduction: 1956
Discontinued: 1964(?)
Background: LUDWIG 3 STAR series. Introduction 1950* / Discontinued 1964*
Pending further review.*
The official Paiste '09 timeline does not reference the Ludwig 3 Star at all, this name was given the masses over the past several years.
Paiste only recognized the Ludwig Standard by name. All variants, we believe are NS12 (Nickel-Silver Alloy).
There is proof of several different embossed logo variations, and it's still unclear as to the order of dating on these over this period. One should also compare the old Ludwig logos that are shown through their history, as this will help to show similar dating in these earlier days.
We do know that any of the Ludwig 3 Stars with the location name of "Swiss Made" or "Swiss" were made from 1957 and after.
Also, there is proof that William F. Ludwig sent a letter to M. Paiste on July 23, 1946 agreeing to a partnership deal between the two companies. However, we do not yet know what that deal was, what kind of cymbals were to be sold, and when these were to be provided.
We believe the first of these were to be with only the "Ludwig" name embossed on the cymbals, as seen in Logo A to the right.
Because we have only found limited proof of these photos (mostly from Ludwig catalogs), we have had to provide our own theories from our data & information collection. In doing so, we have found several indicator features to help identify general date ranges:
Indicator #1--Font Form and Font Style: There are two general forms being used (a script line-form or a hollow block-form). In addition, most of the lettering is shown (detached or separate letters), but one has an (cursive style or attached letters). See the Logo types to the right to gain further information.
Indicator #2--Star Tip Count & Locations: Although there is only one example of tip count variance found so far, we have noticed the locations and angles of the stars have slightly changed over these years. It's unknown as to if this really matters towards dating, but it may give a clue. Most Ludwig 3 Stars have a 5-tips (points or ends), but there is one variant that has 4-tips shown.
Indicator #3--Font Style: There are two styles being used (with flared letter tips/ends) and (non-flared letter tips). You can see the "flared" tip lettering in the "u", "d", "w" and "i" of the Ludwig name.
The following is guestimated approach to a general timeline of the 3 Star use:
LOGO (A): We believe this is the first logo used. It shows only the "Ludwig" name in a narrow script line-form with detached letters that have flared letter tips. There are No stars around this Ludwig name.
LOGO (B): This is likely the second version used, as it is still in narrow script line-form, but changes to a 'cursive' lettering style and it includes three stars around the top and ends of the "Ludwig" name. Just under this, included the signature "Paiste" name. Most of these cymbals show two locations: "Germany" over "Chicago". At the time, Ludwig's (based in Chicago) distribution was for the American market.
- Note: This logo used 4 pointed stars, which is the only one found in these variants. It's possible, like the original Super F602's, they were changing logos until they locked into a final product release.
LOGO (C): We believe this might have been used at the Swiss factory and 1957 or after. It uses a script line-form that is wider than the original script used in "Ludwig". The lettering is detached and has no flared tips. The usual three stars are in place around the "Ludwig" name, which is over the "Paiste" signature. Under this is typically the production location name.
LOGO (D): This is likely the last version of logo stamps used. I believe Paiste transitioned the font types from a script line-form over to a 'hollow' letter-form. They also used detached lettering with 'flared' tips, three stars around the "Ludwig" name, signature "Paiste" under "Ludwig", and the location name varied.
- Note: Being that this occurred in 1957 or after, cymbals had one of the following designations for location located under the "Paiste" signature:
1."Swiss Made"--1957 to 1964
2. "Germany" (with or without "Chicago" under it)
3. No location listed at all
From 1957 and after, these sizes were believed to be offered: Thin, Medium, Heavy 10" through 22" Designated as Band, Ride or Hi Hat.
It should be noted that Ludwig ordered a mass of cymbals shipped to their Chicago warehouse and from there, they mix and matched destined pairs of cymbals.
Again, until we find the missing documents to help better identify some of these characteristics, we can only surmise.
Innovation:
Alloy: Nickel Silver
Quality:Entry level
Production:
Applications:Student, High school Band, marching and orchestra
Users:
Sound:
Thin
Medium
Heavy
Paiste's 1st. appearance in a Ludwig catalog (1957)!
Information from: Timeline from nf drums Germany<<< WARNING: some of this info is out of date
Todd Little, Dan Garza
Return to the Paiste Series Portal
Return to the Paiste Cymbal Type Portal
