Difference between revisions of "Paiste Formula 602 22" Dark Ride"
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'''Production History:''' Dark Rides were produced in the 1975-1977 era based on serial number dating, there are currently 8 non serial 602 Dark Rides documented.<br> | '''Production History:''' Dark Rides were produced in the 1975-1977 era based on serial number dating, there are currently 8 non serial 602 Dark Rides documented.<br> | ||
| − | + | ===The dark ride was Fredy Studers brainchild:=== | |
From a 2022 interview: <i>"I told Robert since the first half of the seventies that Paiste needs a darker sound which would hopefully turn on Jazz drummers. So far they were not attracted to Paiste because the sound was too bright and too clean for them. To be honest, I came up with the idea for the 22" Dark ride because I wanted to have a cymbal like that for myself! | From a 2022 interview: <i>"I told Robert since the first half of the seventies that Paiste needs a darker sound which would hopefully turn on Jazz drummers. So far they were not attracted to Paiste because the sound was too bright and too clean for them. To be honest, I came up with the idea for the 22" Dark ride because I wanted to have a cymbal like that for myself! | ||
I bought many different records for Robert and the two of us were spending nights (including beer and good red wine) listening to many Jazz players and their cymbal sound (like Tony Williams, Steve Gadd, Al Foster, who became a Paiste endorser later on, Elvin Jones and many more). This helped Robert to understand what sound I was talking about."</i><br> | I bought many different records for Robert and the two of us were spending nights (including beer and good red wine) listening to many Jazz players and their cymbal sound (like Tony Williams, Steve Gadd, Al Foster, who became a Paiste endorser later on, Elvin Jones and many more). This helped Robert to understand what sound I was talking about."</i><br> | ||
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In 1978 the [[Paiste_Sound_Creation#Sound_Creation|Sound Creation]] series appears and the [[Paiste_Dark_Ride|Dark Ride]] is found in that series from then on. There is one 602 Dark Ride from 1979 which is consistent with production tapering off rapidly at that time. Also, there is one 1981 Dark Ride cymbal with serial PAISTE 602 142560 (see below), it has the 602 Dark Ride hammering characteristics but no embossed stamp at all, most likely a leftover that was stamped with a serial in mid '81 and sent to a distributor!<br> | In 1978 the [[Paiste_Sound_Creation#Sound_Creation|Sound Creation]] series appears and the [[Paiste_Dark_Ride|Dark Ride]] is found in that series from then on. There is one 602 Dark Ride from 1979 which is consistent with production tapering off rapidly at that time. Also, there is one 1981 Dark Ride cymbal with serial PAISTE 602 142560 (see below), it has the 602 Dark Ride hammering characteristics but no embossed stamp at all, most likely a leftover that was stamped with a serial in mid '81 and sent to a distributor!<br> | ||
| − | + | ===Sound files:=== | |
[https://youtu.be/wJsI8-qvEEg?t=36 Five Vintage Paiste Dark Rides - 22" - 602, Sound Creation, Flatride] <br> | [https://youtu.be/wJsI8-qvEEg?t=36 Five Vintage Paiste Dark Rides - 22" - 602, Sound Creation, Flatride] <br> | ||
[https://youtu.be/LWioEhvalWk FORMULA 602 22" DARK RIDE 1976 3222G.]<br> | [https://youtu.be/LWioEhvalWk FORMULA 602 22" DARK RIDE 1976 3222G.]<br> | ||
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[https://youtu.be/aCDMmhXnvdA 1977 602 Dark Ride]<br> | [https://youtu.be/aCDMmhXnvdA 1977 602 Dark Ride]<br> | ||
| − | + | ===Paiste's Description:=== | |
| + | [[Paiste Dark Ride#Sound Creation|<<<Paiste Dark Ride>>>]]<br> | ||
| − | + | ===Artist/song where it can be heard:=== | |
| + | [[Paiste Barry Altschul#Barry Altschul|Barry Altschul]], [[Paiste Erich Bachträgl#Erich Bachträgl|Erich Bachträgl]], [[Paiste Alex Bally#Alex Bally|Alex Bally]], [[Paiste Dan Brubeck#Dan Brubeck|Dan Brubeck]], [[Paiste Jerry Chardonnens#Jerry Chardonnens|Jerry Chardonnens]], [[Paiste Jon Christensen#Jon Christensen|Jon Christensen]], [[Paiste Pierre Courbois#Pierre Courbois|Pierre Courbois]], [[Paiste Jack De Johnette#Jack De Johnette|Jack De Johnette]], [[Paiste Pierre Favre#Pierre Favre|Pierre Favre]], [[Paiste John Gilston#John Gilston|John Gilston]], [[Paiste Marc Hellman#Marc Hellman|Marc Hellman]], [[Paiste Jon Hiseman|Jon Hiseman]], [[Paiste John Marshall#John Marshall|John Marshall]], [[Paiste Alex Riel#Alex Riel|Alex Riel]]<br> | ||
Notice below that there are two distinct embossed stamps:<br> | Notice below that there are two distinct embossed stamps:<br> | ||
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We are not certain if any of the "outline stamp" versions were sold in the US, research is ongoing!<br> | We are not certain if any of the "outline stamp" versions were sold in the US, research is ongoing!<br> | ||
| − | + | ===European 602 Dark Ride with the 1970's "outline stamp" and full ink:=== | |
<gallery> | <gallery> | ||
File:76 catalog dark ride.jpg|1976 european catalog | File:76 catalog dark ride.jpg|1976 european catalog | ||
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</gallery> | </gallery> | ||
| − | + | ===Rogers 602 Dark Ride with the "plain stamp" and without the 602 name ink stamp:=== | |
| − | |||
<gallery> | <gallery> | ||
File:Paiste-Rogers-1977-Prices2.png|1977 Rogers Catalog: Dark Ride (Part No 52-1822) placed among the 2002s | File:Paiste-Rogers-1977-Prices2.png|1977 Rogers Catalog: Dark Ride (Part No 52-1822) placed among the 2002s | ||
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| − | + | ===602 dark ride oddities:=== | |
Factory refinished 1975 Dark ride: notice the black ink instead of standard 602 blue ink, this was common for cymbals refinished in the 90's because Paiste was no longer using blue ink for any of it's labels. | Factory refinished 1975 Dark ride: notice the black ink instead of standard 602 blue ink, this was common for cymbals refinished in the 90's because Paiste was no longer using blue ink for any of it's labels. | ||
<gallery> | <gallery> | ||
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File:1975 restamped 602 dark ride 4.jpg | File:1975 restamped 602 dark ride 4.jpg | ||
</gallery> | </gallery> | ||
| + | |||
602 dark ride with no emboss/602 stamp, it also has a 1981 602 serial number from the "blue label" era, most likely it sat for four years and then was stamped with a serial when it left the factory in 1981! | 602 dark ride with no emboss/602 stamp, it also has a 1981 602 serial number from the "blue label" era, most likely it sat for four years and then was stamped with a serial when it left the factory in 1981! | ||
<gallery> | <gallery> | ||
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File:347237082 785516553179605 644995563208577719 n.jpg | File:347237082 785516553179605 644995563208577719 n.jpg | ||
File:347605753 1212924576052001 1827317204414924148 n.jpg | File:347605753 1212924576052001 1827317204414924148 n.jpg | ||
| + | </gallery> | ||
| + | |||
| + | ===Dark ride gallery=== | ||
| + | <gallery> | ||
| + | File:22-hip-top.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-hip-top2.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-3188-top3.jpeg | ||
| + | File:22-3194-topb.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-3243-top.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-3258-top.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-3266-top.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-3266-bot.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-3284-top.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-3284-bell.jpg | ||
| + | |||
| + | File:22-3284-top2.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-3284-bot.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-3300-ink.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-3300-model.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-3300-top.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-3300-bot.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-3318-ink1.png | ||
| + | File:22-3318-ink2.png | ||
| + | File:22-sn634064-top.jpg | ||
| + | File:22-sn634064-bot.jpg | ||
</gallery> | </gallery> | ||
<br><br> | <br><br> | ||
Revision as of 18:13, 3 June 2023
Contents
- 1 The dark ride was Fredy Studers brainchild:
- 2 Sound files:
- 3 Paiste's Description:
- 4 Artist/song where it can be heard:
- 5 European 602 Dark Ride with the 1970's "outline stamp" and full ink:
- 6 Rogers 602 Dark Ride with the "plain stamp" and without the 602 name ink stamp:
- 7 602 dark ride oddities:
- 8 Dark ride gallery
Group: Rides
Type: Dark Ride
Size: 22 Inch
Series: Formula 602
Weight: 2889g - 3475g (median 3240g) n=41
Used Prices: needs update
List Price: $288 (from 1977 Rogers catalog) or the equivalent of $1,470! (inflation adjusted to June 2023)
Years of production: 1975 - 1977, with a few mysterious versions that lack serial numbers
Production History: Dark Rides were produced in the 1975-1977 era based on serial number dating, there are currently 8 non serial 602 Dark Rides documented.
The dark ride was Fredy Studers brainchild:
From a 2022 interview: "I told Robert since the first half of the seventies that Paiste needs a darker sound which would hopefully turn on Jazz drummers. So far they were not attracted to Paiste because the sound was too bright and too clean for them. To be honest, I came up with the idea for the 22" Dark ride because I wanted to have a cymbal like that for myself!
I bought many different records for Robert and the two of us were spending nights (including beer and good red wine) listening to many Jazz players and their cymbal sound (like Tony Williams, Steve Gadd, Al Foster, who became a Paiste endorser later on, Elvin Jones and many more). This helped Robert to understand what sound I was talking about."
Jack De Johnette is also credited with early development, and his Dark Ride in the Paiste Profiles 2 (1975) is consistent with the serial number evidence.
There are the Rogers U.S. distributed Dark rides which all come from 1976 and 1977 based on serial numbers, the differences to the European versions are the lack the words "Formula 602" at the bottom of the embossed stamp and ink stamp, but other than that, the hammering, lathing and ink look like the European 602 Dark Rides. The U.S. distributed Dark Rides correlate with Rogers taking over Paiste distribution in the USA. The Rogers price list and catalog from that period shows that Rogers placed this 602 model in among their 2002 catalog offerings and did not mention the Formula 602 series by name (see below). At this point Rogers only distributed and sold 2002's, 602's were available by 1979 but special order only. This would explain why the words Formula 602 were left off the embossed stamp and the ink.
Paiste actually used the archaic super formula 602 "plain stamp" on the Rogers U.S. distributed Dark rides (see below).
In 1978 the Sound Creation series appears and the Dark Ride is found in that series from then on. There is one 602 Dark Ride from 1979 which is consistent with production tapering off rapidly at that time. Also, there is one 1981 Dark Ride cymbal with serial PAISTE 602 142560 (see below), it has the 602 Dark Ride hammering characteristics but no embossed stamp at all, most likely a leftover that was stamped with a serial in mid '81 and sent to a distributor!
Sound files:
Five Vintage Paiste Dark Rides - 22" - 602, Sound Creation, Flatride
FORMULA 602 22" DARK RIDE 1976 3222G.
1975 serial European dark ride: Weight: 3268g Serial:541688
Formula 602 Dark Ride Two Side x Side: left is 3400g and right 3100g
1977 Rogers Formula 602 22" Dark Ride 3310g
1975 European dark ride
Formula 602 22" Dark Ride 3229g
Old K. Zildjian 22" & 602 Dark Ride: K. Zildjian at 2900g and 602 Dark Ride at 3100g.
1977 602 Dark Ride
Paiste's Description:
Artist/song where it can be heard:
Barry Altschul, Erich Bachträgl, Alex Bally, Dan Brubeck, Jerry Chardonnens, Jon Christensen, Pierre Courbois, Jack De Johnette, Pierre Favre, John Gilston, Marc Hellman, Jon Hiseman, John Marshall, Alex Riel
Notice below that there are two distinct embossed stamps:
From the data we have gathered, the European 602 Dark Ride uses the outline version of the full stamp (black label era stamp).
The Rogers U.S distributed 602 Dark Ride (formerly known as "transitional") uses a version which has TRADE underneath the E of Paiste (archaic super formula 602 "plain stamp" from '57 to about '62).
- On the European Dark Ride, most have ink saying Paiste Formula 602 above the bell.
- On the Rogers version, the "Paiste" name ink is there, but the Formula 602 is left off.
We are not certain if any of the "outline stamp" versions were sold in the US, research is ongoing!
European 602 Dark Ride with the 1970's "outline stamp" and full ink:
1976 european catalog
1977 European distributed dark ride emboss and serial
outline stamp but no "formula 602" ink
602 Dark Ride "outline stamp"
602 Dark Ride ink printed stamp
602 Dark Ride with "outline stamp"
602 Dark Ride top
outline stamp and full "formula 602" ink
outline stamp but no "formula 602" ink
collection of dark rides, note: bottom 2 right cymbals are sound creation versions
Rogers 602 Dark Ride with the "plain stamp" and without the 602 name ink stamp:
1977 Rogers Catalog: Dark Ride (Part No 52-1822) placed among the 2002s
The super formula 602 "plain stamp" is identical to the stamp used on the Rogers 602 dark rides!
Rogers 602 Dark Ride "plain stamp" emboss
Dark ride "plain stamp" emboss
1977 US/Rogers distributed dark ride emboss and serial
1977 US/Rogers distributed dark ride emboss and serial
1976 US/Rogers distributed dark ride emboss and serial
close up of emboss and Paiste ink stamp
Rogers dark ride, note lack of "Formula 602" below the Paiste ink stamp
Rogers 602 Dark Ride top
602 dark ride oddities:
Factory refinished 1975 Dark ride: notice the black ink instead of standard 602 blue ink, this was common for cymbals refinished in the 90's because Paiste was no longer using blue ink for any of it's labels.
602 dark ride with no emboss/602 stamp, it also has a 1981 602 serial number from the "blue label" era, most likely it sat for four years and then was stamped with a serial when it left the factory in 1981!
Dark ride gallery
- 22-3284-bell.jpg
- 22-3318-ink1.png
- 22-3318-ink2.png
Special thanks to: Erik Van Huyssteen, Doug Caban, Sean Walton
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