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| | '''Ludwig & Paiste: A marriage made in heaven''' | | '''Ludwig & Paiste: A marriage made in heaven''' |
| − | [[File:Pro Drum Paiste Day 1968 the Red Velvet Club.jpg|thumb|right|450px|]]
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| − | There is proof that William F. Ludwig sent a letter to M. Paiste on July 23, 1946 agreeing to a partnership deal between the two companies.
| + | '''Introduction:''' |
| − | However, we do not yet know what that deal was, what kind of cymbals were to be sold, and when these were to be provided.
| + | Ludwig officially listed Paiste cymbals under the Ludwig name in their catalogs starting in 1957 (Ludwig began importing Paiste Gongs to the U.S. in 1953).<br> |
| − | Robert Paiste recalls that the Ludwig family sent "care packages" (food) to the Paiste family after W.W.II, this indicates that Bill Ludwig Sr. possibly had a relationship with Michail Paiste before the war. Bill Ludwig Sr. took a trip to Nenderoth, Germany to visit his childhood home around 1955/56, afterwards he attended the Frankfurt music fair where met Michael M. Paiste, the relationship soon developed into orders for 20,000 cymbals per year!
| + | However, there are several accounts that the relationship started much earlier than that: there is proof that William Ludwig Sr. had a relationship with Michail Paiste before WWII. Robert Paiste recalls in an interview that his father already had business contacts with Ludwig Sr. while we were in Estonia (1930’s). Also, In the early post-war period (1945/46?) the Ludwig family sent care packages which at that time could not be paid for with money”. |
| − | From the 1957 catalog, a less expensive PAISTE series is offered in addition to the higher-quality Zildjian, under the name "Ludwig". Ludwig "3 stars" (Robert Paiste stated that that the 3-star was a rebranded NS12 Stambul sold to Ludwig for North American distribution).
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| − | Key in getting the partnership off the ground was Robert Yeager from the pro drum shop in Hollywood California. He acted as technical adviser and actually hand picked the cymbals for his shop and for Ludwig to distribute.
| + | In or around 1956: William Ludwig Sr. was visiting his childhood home in Nenderoth Germany, afterward he attended the Frankfurt music fair where met Michael M. Paiste, he purchased some samples from Michail Paiste and brought them back to the US. Bill Ludwig Jr. found them too thick for their American taste, but the price was extremely attractive so he ordered more of them. |
| − | Both Bob Yeager and William Ludwig felt the Paiste cymbals were too heavy, Bob spent a week at Paiste to "reset the standards of thickness" throughout the 602 line.
| + | These cymbals were stamped with the Ludwig name creating exclusivity (the Ludwig “3-star”), which they were to sell with outfits. Ludwig ordered 20,000 cymbals per year for several years and received nothing but a good comments about them. |
| − | This would come back to bite them in the worst way: Ludwig lost about a million dollars replacing cracked 602's, thier customers were all hard hitting fledgling rock drummers, Ludwig had specified too thin of a cymbal to cope with the abuse from these young drummers!
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| − | Also of note: In 1953, Ludwig began importing Paiste Gongs to the USA.
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| − | Bill Ludwig Jr. writes in his autobiography that during his time as an importer of Paiste cymbals, Ludwig had extreme quality problems with the Formula 602, he states that pieces were missing from the broken cymbals, as if a large animal had bitten them off! These statements severely damaged your reputation for a long time in the 70s and 80s, especially in the U.S. What do you think about it today?
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| − | R.P.: We first sold the Stambul series of nickel silver to Ludwig (Ludwig "3 star & Ludwig standard" cymbals). These were the exact same cymbals that were sold in Europe.
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| − | Later they wanted the Formula 602 as well, but they said they weren't thin enough for the American market, they wanted them even thinner.
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| − | Did you make them thinner then?
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| − | R.P.: I think we made them a little thinner, yes.
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| − | Ludwig talks about needing a dedicated basement room to house all the cracked cymbals. When you think about how many cymbals you can stack on top of each other, that seems a bit fantastic. That would have to be millions of broken cymbals!
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| − | R.P.: This is his story. When three adults have participated in something in the past, there are three different stories that come out after just one year. Our cymbals broke no more and no less in America than everywhere else, American dealers have told us that. Of course, we exchanged the broken cymbals. But on the other hand, this fact was very much exploited by the competition to damage and break us. It is very easy to talk something like this up and insanely hard to get away from it again.
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| − | Ludwig continues: After a legal dispute with Paiste, they agreed on a 10% discount on future orders as compensation for the broken cymbals. The ink was not yet dry when Paiste raised the prices by 10%, whereupon he ended the business relationship forever.
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| − | R.P.: Which is surprising and something I never understood in and of itself. A lot of the cymbals that broke in America actually had those big missing pieces that Ludwig also described. And I still don't understand to his day why that was the case.
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| − | I guess in retrospect, Ludwig had done quite a bit with marching corps with his drums. They play without respect, brutally with their huge sticks and they play loud in the first place. But in and of itself it doesn't matter.
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| − | We never had any legal conflicts with Ludwig. That's simply not true what he says. The thing with the so called discounts, that's not true either, for a certain period we had given them discounts for advertising and promotion.
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| − | When prices were raised, everyone raised their prices because the material became expensive. What is true is that he dropped us without warning.
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| − | That must have hit you hard economically, you must have had to invest a lot of new money at that time?
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| − | R.P.: We started very small and limited and then built more and more. Ludwig ordered more and more of the nickel silver cymbals. We were expanding anyway.
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| − | The Formula 602 didn't start going to America until we were somewhat established in the European market and had built up an image. And it is true, Ludwig had a considerable share of our total volume and certainly 60% of all sales to America.
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| − | From the simple and logical realization that it was too risky to concentrate on only one market, we set out to achieve a balance with expansion mainly in the European market. On the other hand, it was tempting to give in to the constant demand from America, as we could use the money for new investments. When an order like that falls away you notice it, that was a hard time, about one and a half to two years, we bridged one year in order to keep the team.
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| − | It takes a long time for someone to learn how to make cymbals, we had the agreement with our people that we had to do other things: we built switch cabinets for the signage factory, we built snow chains and we overhauled carburetors for the Swiss military. Then it picked up again, then it was good again.
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| − | We could only get through an exercise like that because our family history taught us to deal with hopeless situations, Dad did that and I took over from my father, I was there.
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| − | These are the advantages of it in later life. At the time, of course, such times are not so much fun, times of war, times of being refugees.
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| − | In one respect I am very grateful to the Ludwig family: My father already had business contacts with Ludwig Senior while we were in Estonia, In the post-war period the Ludwigs sent us care packages which at that time could not be paid for with money.
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| | <gallery> | | <gallery> |
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| | </gallery> | | </gallery> |
| | --------------------- | | --------------------- |
| | + | '''Sources:''' Robert Paiste 2006 interview, Bill Ludwig's book; "the making of a drum company", pictures courtesy of the Pro Drum shop in Hollywood, CA.<br> |
| | Return to the '''[[Paiste|Main Page]]<br> | | Return to the '''[[Paiste|Main Page]]<br> |
| | Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br> | | Return to the '''[[Paiste Series|Paiste Series Portal]]<br> |
| | Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]] | | Return to the '''[[Paiste Cymbal Type|Paiste Cymbal Type Portal]] |
Ludwig & Paiste: A marriage made in heaven
Introduction:
Ludwig officially listed Paiste cymbals under the Ludwig name in their catalogs starting in 1957 (Ludwig began importing Paiste Gongs to the U.S. in 1953).
However, there are several accounts that the relationship started much earlier than that: there is proof that William Ludwig Sr. had a relationship with Michail Paiste before WWII. Robert Paiste recalls in an interview that his father already had business contacts with Ludwig Sr. while we were in Estonia (1930’s). Also, In the early post-war period (1945/46?) the Ludwig family sent care packages which at that time could not be paid for with money”.
In or around 1956: William Ludwig Sr. was visiting his childhood home in Nenderoth Germany, afterward he attended the Frankfurt music fair where met Michael M. Paiste, he purchased some samples from Michail Paiste and brought them back to the US. Bill Ludwig Jr. found them too thick for their American taste, but the price was extremely attractive so he ordered more of them.
These cymbals were stamped with the Ludwig name creating exclusivity (the Ludwig “3-star”), which they were to sell with outfits. Ludwig ordered 20,000 cymbals per year for several years and received nothing but a good comments about them.
Sources: Robert Paiste 2006 interview, Bill Ludwig's book; "the making of a drum company", pictures courtesy of the Pro Drum shop in Hollywood, CA.
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Return to the Paiste Series Portal
Return to the Paiste Cymbal Type Portal
